Strawberries-and-Hairpins

chaztalk:

When canon shippers in a fandom feel the need to write essays on why their favourite canon pairing works, it’s a sign that the canon pairing from the original source material was weakly written. And as a result, we have people reacting for straws when they are explaining symbolisms not really related to the content or the “subtle hints” of having feelings for the other, which aren’t really subtle, but actually something people do on a daily basis (for example, describing a scene a single glance mentioned in the book or in a panel and coming up with a +300 words on how it’s a sign of “true love” or “feelings”.

I don’t know if it’s just me, but when I support canon ships, I don’t have this need or feeling to write an essay on why they work. “They are good in my head, let’s move on.” I get a lot more excited than that, but that’s my general thought pattern when liking a canon ship.

Yeah maybe it’s just you because I don’t know what a ship’s canon status has to do with whether ond decides to write an ‘essay’ on it or not. Isn’t that just shit shippers do? Like you start off following a pair of characters in a show that becomes official later on in the series and shippers go back to moments before they were canon and see the scenes in a new light.

Ain’t no way you don’t have canon ships you like where you don’t see the shippers posting essays about the ship and I bet you don’t tell your own shipmates, “Hey man, we’re canon, we don’t have to write these essays, there’s no need!” You probably read and enjoy those ones but for the ships you don’t support you suddenly see an issue with it.

There are canon ships I don’t like but I have no problem with those shippers writing 'essays’. I don’t care, just don’t read them if it bothers you.

sci-figeek2:

strawberries-and-hairpins:

sci-figeek2:

I know there’s been a lot of hate directed at EW during his tenure as the Flash SR. He came in and changed the show in a lot of ways in an attempt to revitalize things cause lets face it season 5 was problematic in so many ways. Most were crying for a change. We got that change and it wasn’t popular especially to WA fans but that’s how these things work, you get a new person in charge and with that comes the fact that the are gonna want to put their own stamp on things, bring their own vision to life, not continue someone else’s vision. So we got a SR that tried to bring fresh ideas to a show that had been on the air for 5 seasons with established, beloved characters. The Flash did feel like a different show in season 6 and beyond which makes sense because it was being ran by a completely different person and this was his first time in the position, I can appreciate the huge challenge he was faced with. I’m just glad he remembered who that heart of the show is

I did like that EW broke the seasons into chapters and allowed us more villains, vs one season long villain that would constantly elude Barry till the finale. That was a breath of fresh air.

Given how much more positive people are receiving s9. The main issue people had with EW was seeming to remove Barry and Iris as the heart of the show, constantly separating and traumatizing Iris, allowing no fun or happiness with the couple.

It wasn’t as if he anyone would have been adverse to more stories with newer characters he favored like Chester and Allegra, but don’t do it at the expense of what fans have considered the heart of the show for five seasons prior to his takeover.

I never really got why he ultimately knew the endgame regarding Barry and Iris’ future where he could have given Iris and Allegra do more journalism storylines together and actually set up Westallen having a family in s7 for real vs making it a fake out and choosing to have Iris disappear in time and ultimately barely spend any time together in 8.

It’s a shame that it took major backlash from his treatment of the leads in s8 for him to finally be like, alright let’s now do right by the leading couple. Had he just done this in s6 from the getgo he wouldn’t have this pressure to now rush every milestone with Barry and Iris’ story on top of wrapping up the other characters’ story endings in 13 episodes.

Completely agree. Unfortunately we ended up with a SR that was green, he didn’t have SR experience. He was great on ideas but not great on execution. You’re right the biggest issue is him constantly separating and putting the leads through trauma with barely any happy times until this season. Not thoroughly developing Iris’s journalism, he rather have Allegra in SL for some reason instead of doing her job. I think with Barry it was mixed, he did develop some cool ways to use his powers but he was sidelined for side characters at times. Nobody is tuning in to see just side characters. There just wasn’t a balance, so even though he broke the season into novels, characters lives became stagnant. The biggest issue for me is he thought there was a chance season 8 was the last season yet he didn’t plan it like it was, it felt underwhelming for a potential last season. Who has their female lead gone for 4 episodes at the end of the season if it’s the last one. The pregnancy thing I’m just gonna chalk it up to her not being able to conceive due to the time sickness since she had it since the end of season 7 🤷🏽‍♀️ but then again there wasn’t much development happening with their personal lives until this year

Yep, I agree! I liked the ideas just the execution could have been better. Take the time sickness for instance. What made it feel frustrating is that it felt this thing was just happening to Iris and we didn’t exactly know why AND the characters weren’t acting serious about it, they were off doing their own stuff even laughing and playing games (the disrespect there!)

But had it been something like Iris being pregnant and complications with a speedster pregnancy, I could have gotten behind that. Or if not wanting it to be pregnancy related, why couldn’t we have seen Barry be more active in the storyline, mapping out what caused it, going to the future, being genuinely terrified that Iris could disappear at any given moment, and when Iris did disappear, we’d then see her experiencing being lost in time, see her in the still force, meeting characters, experiencing different timelines etc. I actually thought this would be the moment we’d see Barry go to the future for answers and see that moment play that Thawne mentions made him hate Barry. But instead the story made Iris feel like a plot point, a couple reactors I watch were frustrated, didn’t really understand why Iris wasn’t part of the story. It was a miserable viewing time.

As you mentioned EW is green, he’s a big fan of the Flash, which I like, has some interesting ideas and we’ve seen Barry do a ton of cool stuff under him, but he likes to do a lot of tell and not show. We’re always hearing about these interesting alternate timelines or scenarios in the future, why can’t we see it more? I think a lot more people would vibe with Red Death if we got to see her perspective.

I won’t necessarily say that characters like Cecile or Allegra should just suddenly not have screentime, I just wish they got scenes more meaningful, more journalism with Allegra, Cecile being a DA, Chester doing tech with Barry (will we see Barry build Gideon?). Yet when you get scenes with them that just feel miniscule to the overall plot and silly dialogue, you wonder why we couldn’t use that developing the villain’s story, and it does get frustrating.

In the end I like the show as a whole and stuck around this long cause I do genuinely enjoy watching these characters have adventures. I think now with the proper knowledge that this is the final season, EW will try to go out with a bang and wrap up everyone’s stories in a meaningful way.

sci-figeek2:

I know there’s been a lot of hate directed at EW during his tenure as the Flash SR. He came in and changed the show in a lot of ways in an attempt to revitalize things cause lets face it season 5 was problematic in so many ways. Most were crying for a change. We got that change and it wasn’t popular especially to WA fans but that’s how these things work, you get a new person in charge and with that comes the fact that the are gonna want to put their own stamp on things, bring their own vision to life, not continue someone else’s vision. So we got a SR that tried to bring fresh ideas to a show that had been on the air for 5 seasons with established, beloved characters. The Flash did feel like a different show in season 6 and beyond which makes sense because it was being ran by a completely different person and this was his first time in the position, I can appreciate the huge challenge he was faced with. I’m just glad he remembered who that heart of the show is

I did like that EW broke the seasons into chapters and allowed us more villains, vs one season long villain that would constantly elude Barry till the finale. That was a breath of fresh air.

Given how much more positive people are receiving s9. The main issue people had with EW was seeming to remove Barry and Iris as the heart of the show, constantly separating and traumatizing Iris, allowing no fun or happiness with the couple.

It wasn’t as if he anyone would have been adverse to more stories with newer characters he favored like Chester and Allegra, but don’t do it at the expense of what fans have considered the heart of the show for five seasons prior to his takeover.

I never really got why he ultimately knew the endgame regarding Barry and Iris’ future where he could have given Iris and Allegra do more journalism storylines together and actually set up Westallen having a family in s7 for real vs making it a fake out and choosing to have Iris disappear in time and ultimately barely spend any time together in 8.

It’s a shame that it took major backlash from his treatment of the leads in s8 for him to finally be like, alright let’s now do right by the leading couple. Had he just done this in s6 from the getgo he wouldn’t have this pressure to now rush every milestone with Barry and Iris’ story on top of wrapping up the other characters’ story endings in 13 episodes.

azulawriting:

I probably shouldn’t be even writing this because the ship wars are back at it again with the new anime season, and my opinion will probably not make either side happy.

Full disclosure, up until very recently, I was an anime-only person when it came to Bleach. I watched the filler, but not the movies because of all the flack I got for watching non-canon content. Bleach has always been a “niche” series in my area, so you can imagine that it’s not that I didn’t want to read the manga back when I watched the show on TV and over some websites of dubious legality. Once the anime was over, I naturally found ways to read the manga from that point on. 

I assumed that the anime was basically a 1-to-1 adaptation of the manga, save for the fillers. And, like many fans back when TYBW was ongoing, had my gripes on how rushed the ending came. Mind you, by the time Bleach as a manga ended, I was already a full-on weeb and I had read/watched many other shows. The magic that had captured 11-year-old me into this universe was growing thin by some of the rushed and lack-of what I thought to be key points for the arc to develop. As much as it’s interesting to have Ichigo be part Quincy, having little to no explanation as to why Uryu decided to be part of the Sternritters was…disappointing. There were good things, but by the point the final chapters were rolling by, my enjoyment of Bleach as a whole became dependent on what the ending ships became. Is it petty? Sure, but I wouldn’t go as low as to burn tomes of Bleach for not having my way.

As an anime-only, I will say this: The anime makes an extremely clear point that Orihime’s affection is completely one-sided. At no point did I get the impression that Ichigo would reciprocate her feelings, and my perception of that didn’t change much in the manga. Although I thought it was good for Orihime’s character to have Ichigo acknowledge that she can fight by his side. But as I said, at the time, I was full on board with IchiRuki and that single moment wasn’t going to suddenly change my perspective.

So, did something change?

Yes, but no(?) 

Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate IchiRuki for being a ship that appeals to my idealistic view of romance: a close relationship where two people build each other up and don’t give up on each other no matter what. I’m starting to finally read the manga and so far, I’ve barely reached the Fake Karakura Town arc. I won’t say I suddenly see the error in IchiRuki, and bend down to the canon for making total sense and being obvious from day 1. But I can safely say that I can see why some people are so adamant to say that IchiHime was the right end-game ship. My problem so far with it is that although I can’t definitively say Ichigo doesn’t care about Orihime as more than a friend, I can’t be sure it’s a hundred per cent non-platonic. I don’t have the panels fresh on my mind, but I do get that when Orihime’s captured, we see Ichigo get more reckless and distant with his actual friends and hurt them because he “doesn’t trust them”. I can easily take this as Ichigo caring particularly for Orihime….but I have nothing similar to compare it to. When Rukia was captured, he had a similar reaction, but we didn’t see the breakdown in his friendship with say Tatsuki, because to everyone but Chad, Uryu and Orihime, Rukia stopped existing. I’d argue I was surprised more at how Ishida was way more concerned than usual and wanted to go out on his lonesome to rescue Orihime himself. That’s something I would read as inherently more open to a romantic interpretation given what we know of Ishida’s character thus far. The anime adapted the scene between Uryu and Urahara (I think), but after an entire season of filler, this little moment felt less significant to me than it did when I read it.

But I digress.

So far the only moment where I can safely say that Ichigo did prioritize Orihime is when Ulquiorra admits to having manipulated her into coming to Hueco Mundo. You’re free to interpret it as definitive proof or some indication of Ichigo’s feelings, but I’m not completely sold on it. Again, his sole reason for being there is to save her and prove Soul Society’s assessment of her actions to be incorrect. You can call it nitpicking, but, you gotta understand that, to me, Ichigo is somebody who would probably fight to the death for any of his friends. It takes a lot for me to try to get hints of romantic behaviour from him versus just platonic camaraderie.

Another thing that, while reading the Hueco Mundo in particular, doesn’t sell me into IchiHime is how Orihime thinks of Ichigo’s hollow powers as “not her Ichigo”. She is right in saying that White Ichigo is not really him, but it is still something that’s part of him. I can’t say for sure that it’s clear that Rukia would accept it and be cool with it, I don’t think that’d be right considering her story with Kaien. However, the key difference is that if nothing else, Rukia was the one to shake Ichigo’s dread over his power off him. Orihime freezes and is rightly terrified of it, going so far as to no longer believe or want Ichigo to win against Grimmjow the moment he puts the mask on. It takes Nel to snap her out of it. I wonder how this attitude will affect Orihime for his final fight with Ulquiorra. Because if that chapter(s) is anything like its anime equivalent, I think it paints quite a grim picture of the dynamics of the two. At the very least, it’d make Orihime really start reconsidering her feelings for him if what just defeated her captor is “not her Ichigo”. If “not her Ichigo” is the only side of him that would rise to protect her, is her affection for him ever going to bloom and positively change him?

And before you think I’m stating that I’m still anti-IchiHime, this same train of thought lead me to recontextualize that moment in TYBW where Ichigo asks Orihime to fight by his side. Considering the manga thus far, I would be open to interpreting that moment in the final chapters as a romantic moment between the two. But I still have a lot of reading to do. As I’m writing this, I’m in the middle of chapter 328. I don’t know if I’ll make other posts updating my thoughts on the manga as I keep reading. It’s been quite a while since I’ve been on Tumblr and this post is probably gonna die, buried under hundreds of more active accounts.

Nevertheless, there you have it. I’m honestly a bit ambivalent about the ship wars. I can see excellent reasons for both ships to exist. I don’t ship IchiHime, but I get you guys who do. You aren’t crazy. I still don’t think that what I got thus far would sell me into thinking the end-game ships make 100% sense, but now I can’t say that IchiHime is completely baseless. It has something. Kubo may be pardoned for that. Shonen romances aren’t usually great and deep anyhow.

What I don’t excuse Kubo for is making Kazui that much of a psycho in the hell chapter. I don’t care if he was tricked or not, his parents should know better. I mean…come on, it’s Ichigo’s son. His spiritual pressure must be monstrous and he couldn’t have learnt to be a shinigami that young on his own. It’s completely OOC for both Orihime and Ichigo to not give two damns about where their kid goes and just slap him on the wrist for sneaking out at night and doing whatever. Namely sending souls to hell.

I’ll just say that unfortunately the anime is in no way a faithful adaptation of Kubo’s work in the slightest. It skewed a lot of ppl’s view to IR given it went out of its way to remove or outright rewrite plenty of Orihime and Ichihime scenes while creating non existent IR filler in its place. If you read the manga most of those ‘romantic’ scenes the anime added for IR doesn’t even exist in the manga.

So if you recently went from the anime to the manga, it’s very easy to see you still viewing IR moments in the manga with the romantic bias the anime created. I know you said your 'mixed’ but a lot of your takes honestly reads like many that came before it years ago when the manga ended and there were posts scrutinizing the Ichihime scenes while propping up Rukia to be better suited for Ichigo. You clearly favor Ichiruki more.

I honestly don’t know what to tell you if you came to a point where your enjoyment of Bleach literally boiled down to who Ichigo ended up with. You would have to think that would be something that would come together in the final chapter to close up the story. It seems silly to be intentionally critical that Kubo didn’t come out and blatantly slap Shoujo level romance scenes in every interaction involving Orihime and Ichigo. The foundation for Ichihime is there even if you want to twist the scenes to mean differently and convince yourself otherwise.

The TYBW arc wasn’t perfect and had many criticisms from fans that the anime with Kubo’s supervision will hopefully be able to rectify. Only fans that favor IR will try to claim Ichihime was one of those issues. If you look around outside of the IR bubble you’ll see that many fans had no problem with Ichihime and even seen it coming.

westidia:

We really got mfs in this fandom, that are sticking up for Cecile, riding for the bitch. CECILE!?!? How sway? I don’t understand it. She is a terrible character, every aspect of Cecile is literal DOG SHIT!. I never had a opinion on the character til around season 7. Didn’t even remember her seasons prior(besides s5 that whole whack ass pregnancy ark that she should have NEVER had) thats how forgettable she is. (As well as the actress that plays her, Danielle Nicolet.) saying we have to support Cecile because we support iris a fellow red-head “oppressor” Bitch WHAT THE FUCK. Also saying that we only support the red-head “oppressors” in question-Iris- when they’re romantically linked to the lead…BFFR. We don’t like her because she is a exceedingly terribly written character, she’s always in other peoples business, never where she belongs, takes up way to fucking much screen time, when it can go to other characters we wanna see-Barry and Iris-, she’s all over the place, doesn’t know her place at all. And A LOT of our love and adoration for Iris is SEPARATE from Barry. Half of the Westallen fandom don’t even like Barry that much which is 100% ok especially how these last 2 seasons have went, but that’s a whole different story. The point is Cecile is a trash, not likable, dirty, grimy character. And she doesn’t deserve all of the screen time she gets. (Which now a days seems more than the leads, the people we actually want to see)

That person in question definitely has odd takes about the season as a whole. I remember tweeting that it seemed like EW doesn’t know how to connect his supporting stories to the leads. He gets rid of them and the main story doesn’t move at all and made some eps boring, even skippable. A contrast to s1 where you learn something about Wells, and it goes on to effect chars behaviors/dynamics in the next ep, keeping your engagement every ep.

In defense of s8, this person then warped my words to say how there was also side stories even in s1. My issue wasn’t about side chars having stories at all, it was about these stories not being CONNECTED to the leads. Yes there was a Caitlin/Ronnie arc in s1 but it ultimately leads to Ronnie being vital to help Barry take down Reverse Flash with Oliver. It wasn’t an isolated arc for Caitlin that had no effect on the picture.

Eric Wallace doesn’t get this. There’s lots of useless story threads with Chester, Allegra, and Cecile that doesn’t benefit Barry or Iris. In 8x15 when Iris goes missing, Barry goes to look for her with Deon and Chester has some unrelated storyline with streaming. Why wouldn’t he be concerned about Iris missing? Why is his sl not connected to Barry’s where while Barry is looking for Iris in the still force, Chester could be trying to invent some technology to locate Iris.

This is what I meant. You could skip those next 3 eps after 8x15 and not miss anything regarding Iris or her time sickness cause the story was put on hold until Iris returned in 8x19. Yet that person was being extremely obtuse about what my issue was. Now this take with comparing Cecile’s hate to Iris.

Nuh uh! I just can’t imagine an Iris fan would even begin to defend Cecile given her treatment of Iris, or this season in general when it came to how Iris was handled vs Cecile. She was given way more than a supporting character should to the point she eclipsed the female lead. You can’t be serious to even begin to compare Iris’ 8 years of racist to Cecile who doesn’t even get it to that extreme extent.